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Post by TM93 on Mar 31, 2016 22:18:26 GMT
No, it's fine, I get where you're coming from. I suppose it's one of those things where it would feel weird to just remove the option; there's no real 'wrong' way to build in DDA, it might not be as efficient, some might call it a trick choice, but I just feel it'd be weird to remove it entirely.
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Post by Gazmer on Apr 1, 2016 0:01:20 GMT
And that is entirely your choice. After all it is your project not mine and its important never to lose sight of that.
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Post by Gazmer on Apr 22, 2016 3:09:23 GMT
Can someone clarify how anybody is supposed to get out of a clash.
“one who initiates the Clash rolls 3d6 + your Body stat against a TN of 0 + your opponent’s Agility stat.”
That's a bit small isn’t it? Is it supposed to be 10+ or 3D6+? Or am I just misreading something.
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Post by TM93 on Apr 23, 2016 4:27:52 GMT
Clashing is worded messily as it is, don't worry.
It's all but impossible to get proper ruling but here's how it works in .11: each Round both parties roll a Body check (free Action at the start of each Round to determine the winner) (3D6+Body) with a TN equal to the opponent's Agility (taking Modifiers into account.). Follow the rules otherwise to a T: if both parties do not meet the TN the Clash ends as they both apparently suck at gripping things and/or are made of noodles. If one party fails and another wins, the winner gains Control. If both parties succeed, the winner is the Digimon who beat the DC by the greater amount. In a Perfect Tie Scenario (both parties beat the TN by the same amount) the Clash goes to whoever started the original Clash (rewarding offense in the event of a total tie is something all games should do: otherwise combat has a great potential to stall out entirely and we get 50 rounds of "is the troll dead yet?").
You get out of the Clash by either both parties failing, you winning as they fail, or by succeeding in the TN check and choosing to End the Clash as a Simple Action.
Essentially it's due to Agility generally being easier to pump than Body, as well as a system trying to favor Offense and let people do their job.
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Post by Yuko Sayre on Sept 8, 2016 0:46:38 GMT
Here's the thing though; inversely, Brains scales at a fantastic rate compared to the other two Stats, gaining a bonus not only from the Stage, but as a 1 for 1 basis with a single Stat. While it makes a single option subpar, it also helps make Body or Agility based characters have a chance to at least somewhat catch up. Honestly, Brains also works into a lot of various derived things as it is, and that's only increasing in .1.1 with how a lot of Effects will be working now. There's not much need as such to make it even more efficient somehow from a balance standpoint. I've been thinking about this recently since I started up my campaign in case it comes up and I recently started thinking about what this is meant to do, and if the purpose of it is to kinda level the field between Brain, Body, and Agility I think that goal may have been accomplished (may have is the key word) with the recently attempt to keep Brains from being an immensely overpowered stat. However, I think really this quality (except for Megas and Burst if you use those) is really a temporary solution to a permanent problem. It provides a small boost in the moment for whatever stat you pick, but ultimately whenever you reach another stage you lose everything from Derived Stat (unless you decide to reinvest which kinda forces you to use it as a crutch I feel like because you can't spend that DP on stats in the new stage.) I feel like in the current edition it would be much better to simply invest in the stats and let the formulas rise as they are. I guess the question is this. In the current edition does Improved Derived Quality even need to exist? At this point I think mostly only the GM will get anything useful out of this as players will probably be getting enough DP out of this that they likely wont care as much.
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Post by TM93 on Sept 8, 2016 15:05:00 GMT
I don't think that it's per say required in the edition, and mechanically one does generally get more out of it by taking the long road and investing in the appropriate stats, because outside of some niche builds (generally Body-based ones, as that scales the worst still, and some Brains and Agility based builds could still see some way to squeeze a rank or two in to finish off a stat), it's not normally worth it for the average Digimon to use.
However I'm also not going to simply remove it, while it's not exactly an optimal solution for most builds, it's also one which could in fact be incredibly useful to many other builds. Our community is rather small in terms of who posts, and we're also not the only ones. It's still a choice which is not outright hindering and has a niche, but potentially useful boost for a potential pool of players. As such I really don't think I should entirely remove it either. I helped shape the system into what it is today, and I like to think I know the workings inside and out by now give or take, but unless a Quality is blatantly hindering, I'd really rather not outright remove it, because odds are there's someone, somewhere out there who could find a fantastic use for it somehow that I can't see off the bat.
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Post by Yuko Sayre on Sept 10, 2016 18:57:39 GMT
Makes sense. I know more people out there play the system than just the ones that post on here. Thats obvious by how many people join up when someone hosts a game. You're right of course. In a lot of cases it probably isn't hurting anything by being there either. Maybe someone can find a use for it, you never know people can come up with some pretty interesting builds.
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Post by Ljcyan on Oct 3, 2016 15:59:04 GMT
Hey, I've played a few sessions now and the one thing that I'm having trouble with is bit/cpu/ram values, particularly in regards to status effects. Derived Stats are always rounded down, making it highly unlikely that Rookies and most Champions have a bit/ram/cpu value at all, which I assume is 0. However, that would mean that in most cases, a status effect on a Rookie/Champion is almost always pointless as they simply don't have the stats to reach even a single point of bit/cpu/ram. What's more is that Ultimates, Megas and even Burst modes rarely get more than a single point without investing heavily into specific stats, making a Mega's Fear effect rarely more powerful than an Ultimates.
So is it a design choice to restrict abilities that reference bit/cpu/ram values to higher level digimon? The abilities are quite powerful to be sure, but I feel barring low level digimon from using such abilities is disappointing from a flavour point of view, like Palmon and Poison status. I feel it would be better to reduce the requirements for the various values and reduce the effects of the abilities accordingly. For example: Bit Value = Brains/5 and having Attack Effect: Poison be wound box damage equal to the user's Bit value or Attack Effect: Strengthen's stat bonus equal to Bit value X2.
I may have missed something reading up on all this but I've read over it several times, including now and think that I understand how it works. But after playtesting, bit/cpu/ram values feel less like a stat and more like a yes/no thing. You've either got a Bit value of 1 or you don't have one at all.
I know that these mechanics were added in the last update and as I said before, I may have missed or misread something so I'd like to hear your opinion or reasoning.
Thanks!
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Post by TM93 on Oct 4, 2016 0:15:53 GMT
Well I would like to start off saying that the biggest deal is easily BIT. CPU and RAM are relatively niche, but the effects and qualities that would use them generally have high-ish values for them in the end overall. At the same time, BIT is arguably the easiest to get to 1 or higher of the 3 as well. I'm not going to worry about Fresh and In-Training level Digimon, as until much later on in a game they simply don't have the DP to focus on anything but their raw stats.
Rookies do indeed have some trouble getting to 1 Bit, needing 14 or more Accuracy, or investment in Improved Derived Stats. However, I would argue that Champion isn't nearly as bad, only requiring 10 points of Accuracy (if your goal is to be some type of Effect Enabler, odds are by the time your story has hit Champion, you're close to if not already at 10 in your primary stat) or some mix of Accuracy and Improved Derived Stats.
Now before I go into my thoughts on the balance, I want to say this: this may need to get reworked later and have every value start at 1, or maybe 1+Stage past Rookie (Rookie: 1, Champion: 2, Ultimate: 3, Mega: 4, Burst: 5, Burst+X: 5+X). If you want to houserule this in the meantime, feel free to.
Before, Effects were a mixed bag of useless/broken/amazing early on/useless early on as well as being incredibly convoluted at times (Poison for example was 100% useless past Champion, and Fear was a horrifying tool if you were Accuracy heavy. Meanwhile, Strengthen and Weaken were just a mess. I liked the idea but it was in serious need of a rework). I wanted to try to bring a semblance of varying, scaling balance to it, and the Derived-Derived Stats of BIT, RAM, and CPU were my means to attempt that. They're still very much a work in progress overall.
But a major problem existed with Effects on top of that: they entirely worked on Leftover Accuracy, so it had to be changed to Brains. But Brains were already an incredibly powerful tool in the game due to it being a primary Perception Stat for Digimon, so to deal with it I sort of doubled down on the formula to curb the growth for these newer, hopefully more potent Effects: Derived-Derived stats, and the Brains formula rework. I added a bit more to the base Brains for each Stage, but in return Brains only scales at 1/2 Accuracy, instead of Accuracy itself. Essentially I made them more potent and scaling, but also made the scaling itself a bit of work. I understand if I need to up the gains a bit.
I hope my incoherent rambling is making a bit of sense here, if not, apologies.
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Post by Ljcyan on Oct 4, 2016 9:17:21 GMT
No, it's fine and thank you for giving your input ^_^
At the moment my kneejerk reaction was to have bit value have a minimum of 1. It works...ok I guess. Status effect Rookies feel strong, perhaps even a tad too strong but it is nice having the option. Of course, having it at minimum one means that when the digimon finally hits a Brains of 10, it will still only have 1 bit value; effects won't change until a digimon hits Brains 20. Obviously this isn't a perfect solution, or even a good one necessarily but it does let the players fiddle with a lot more qualities then they would at Rookie, which has certainly been fun for them.
I like the idea of simply upping the gains a bit and maybe scaling the status effects accordingly, although I admit that it would take a fair amount of work. Another way to look at it is from the resistance stand point. At the moment your options for countering status effects are levels of the quality Resistant or the boss quality Immunity. My problem with Resistant is that, if the digimon is hit with an effect, even if it's reduced to a single round, there is nothing stopping a digimon from reapplying it the next round. Maybe having an advanced quality that prevents reapplication of the same effect either for 1/2/3 rounds after, or full immunity after it's suffered the effect could be an option. With Immunity, it's more of a blunt hammer sort of approach. I know that it's mainly used for final bosses so that's understandable but it could be handy to have a lesser option, like immunity from a certain status effect like Fear or Poison only.
I bring all this up because the status effects have been, in general, a whole lot of fun in the campaign. It's rare that statuses are powerful, let alone enjoyable in most roleplaying systems and my players have been utilizing them quite a bit so I've been thinking about it. Trying to find that balance between "Boss is weakened and paralyzed, fight over" and "Boss is immune to all status; your digimon might as well sit this one out" is one that I feel this system is already pretty close to. It may come down to some slight adjustments or maybe even just adding a few more options for qualities to get that perfect balance.
Of course this is mostly just opinion and observations ^_^
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Post by Kota1908 on Oct 4, 2016 17:31:01 GMT
Having read over this whole thing, seen the suggestions, and considered the problem, I'd like to offer a solution. Perhaps derived stats divided by 5 would be too big, but divided by 10 seems too small. A stage-based addition would require a re-balance of the status scaling, but perhaps there's something simpler here. What about a small addition to the formula? Like a stage-based multiplier? Say, add 50% for each stage of digivolution? For a rookie, this would put their Bit Value to 1 at... 7 Brains, I think, which is a bit earlier, but not too much, and they would get a Bit Value of 2 at 14 Brains, which would be good for these status based mons... A Champion would get their Bit Value to 1 a touch earlier, at 5 Brains... Well, maybe not 50%, actually, because the math for that is terrible scaling up, but the concept is sound. Whaddaya think?
EDIT: Actually, thinking about it, 10% per stage is starting to sound reasonable. Bit Value of 1 at 9 for Rookies, 8 for Champions, 7 for Ultimates...
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Post by TM93 on Oct 4, 2016 23:53:45 GMT
Well, I did find that people in my group (I hardly want to discount other people's experiences here, this was just mine) liked mixing Damage+Effect, the easiest way to make a boss "immune" was honestly to just give it high Armor. Less than two Damage Dealt=No Sell for Effects then.
I'll consider updates to the Derived-Derived Stats at a later time, don't worry though. Heck, maybe I'll just make an "Improved Derived Stat" for the Derived-Derived ones too, that could honestly solve the problem potentially too. Making them 1 DP each.
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Post by Kota1908 on Oct 5, 2016 2:40:40 GMT
I'll consider updates to the Derived-Derived Stats at a later time, don't worry though. Heck, maybe I'll just make an "Improved Derived Stat" for the Derived-Derived ones too, that could honestly solve the problem potentially too. Making them 1 DP each. Actually, that sounds better, yeah.
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Post by TM93 on Oct 5, 2016 23:54:12 GMT
Actually on a second thought, 3 DP each may be more appropriate for a Derived-derived Stat. Because math going in: normally takes a LOT of DP of Stats, or 10 DP for Improved Derived Stat, to improve one of the Derived-derived Stats. For a build which absolutely requires it, 3 DP is a worthwhile dip, but 1 is just too little if you ask me. It's a bit steep, but it's honestly still incredibly cost-effective.
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Post by Kota1908 on Oct 6, 2016 18:45:50 GMT
Hm, maybe add some restrictions to it, then, on top of the 3 DP cost?
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